A legendary interview where Lee Kuan Yew faces tough questions from Tim Sebastian about human rights, the death penalty, and Singapore's strict laws.

Key Moments

• On Human Rights: Lee Kuan Yew defends the Asian view of human rights, prioritizing societal stability over individual liberties.
• On The Death Penalty: His uncompromising stance on drug trafficking and the death penalty as a deterrent.
• On Critics: "I am not interested in being politically correct. I am interested in being correct."
• Leadership: His philosophy of doing what is necessary, not what is popular.

Full Transcript

Tim Sebastian:
the people can handle the freedom of democracy

Lee Kuan Yew:
when did I say that some years ago no no no be very careful when you quote me because I'm very careful how I phrase myself because it's part of my legal training

Tim Sebastian:
but you you so you don't agree with that

Lee Kuan Yew:
no no what I have no no just a moment you give me my quote in the context in which it in which it was placed don't just pluck out a few words and toss it at me unexpectedly in an interview and expect me to crumble

Tim Sebastian:
no I'm I'm expecting you to answer it

Lee Kuan Yew:
why should I answer something which I may never have uttered the number of things I've said even if I were a Data Bank I wouldn't be able to retrieve it

Tim Sebastian:
all the all the criticism that Singapore has had what what effect does that have on you

Lee Kuan Yew:
well you mind it uh it's part of life I read it sometimes I take note of it I improve move look at Singapore would anybody be interested in Singapore if it were a failure

Tim Sebastian:
what about Pap what about the opposition party they're not particularly happy with it Singapore they call it

Lee Kuan Yew:
they get a chance every four to 5 years they get a chance every meeting of parliament the cameras are there who's the ball if there were such a marvelous proposition I would have been tossed out years ago as one of the few countries where people have the right to toss a government out and they have not done so I think despite all that the West have said nobody have said that we've been stuffing the ballot papers in not even our meanest enemies

Tim Sebastian:
they have criticized the human rights record the number of executions for instance haven't they

Lee Kuan Yew:
may believe that if you're kind to drug traffickers you get a better Society in America they're changing their minds and they're sending people back to the to death R in Singapore before you land they Tim Sebastian
or the steward will announce that there are very heavy penalties if you are found with more than a stated number of grams of certain prohibited drugs and if you still come in with a few kilos of them which will destroy hundreds thousands of families one death is too kind because you are killing that family every day for years and years and years that a daughter or a son is an addict

Tim Sebastian:
but the per capita rate of executions in Singapore is much higher than in the United States

Lee Kuan Yew:
have you worked it out according to Amnesty International have they worked it out accurately per capita of what per capita of drug traffickers or per capita of population of Singapore I am executing foreign drug traffickers let me tell you the people who have been executed Nigerians because Nigerians are the most unlikely of drug traffickers in in a Asian Society Dutch women traveling with African men Dutchman traveling with Chinese women how do you calculate per capita per capita of Dutchman entering Singapore orer Capital Singaporean say against Dutchman what's amnesty talking about do they know what's happening do they ask themselves what would happen if we we send them all to prison for 5 10 years and we'll have to make more prisons because there'll be such an Ender stream of them and this is despite the death penalty the rewards are so enormous that people are willing to risk it and why not

Tim Sebastian:
would you say that over the 31 years as you were prime minister that you were ruthless man

Lee Kuan Yew:
do I look to you a ruthless man here I am being pillared ex excoriated by who abused by you near asked questions I thought no but every one of them is barbed loaded darts with a bit of arsenic in it

Tim Sebastian:
I'd like to think that you were given a chance to answer any question that was put to you

Lee Kuan Yew:
no oh that's what I'm offering myself for isn't it but if I were a ruthless man I would get you into a corner and say now let me ask you some questions why do you start with the assumption that your interviewee is always dumb and that you are smarter than him why do you assume that Asians are somehow unable to understand Western ways of life and that they would be so much better if they were become if they would become more like the West

Tim Sebastian:
do you think that's the attitude of people westerners that you talk to Western interviewers

Lee Kuan Yew:
yes but not all westerners because I've got many Western friends who know me very well and we cease to look at each other as easterners or westerners but when I meet an interviewer in a formal setting such as this that's the Assumption

Tim Sebastian:
lean you what what does the future hold for you what what Ambitions do you have at 74

Lee Kuan Yew:
one doesn't talk I don't talk anymore of Ambitions I've either done what I could have done or I'm hardly likely to do it now what I have done I'm not ashamed of what do I expect to do with myself for the rest of time have pleasant conversations with people like you